Getting right to it: No.
If you haven’t yet, read Andy Martino’s column in the News in which he states:
This is where some folks will loudly disagree, but it is clear that a certain segment of the fan base and media is less patient with Latin American players than with white players
I can’t argue with the general “certain segment” because even if it’s .00001% of the fanbase then yeah a “certain segment” acts that way. As a general indictment of the fanbase, no way.
I find that Mets fans like gritty players who play better than those of us in the uppers perceive their god given abilities to be. Sometimes that’s Wally Backman, sometimes it’s a 35 year old knuckler from nowhere. Scrappy shortstop at Seaver’s side: loved. The Chose One Rookie that came up for coffee in 1987 and for the 1988 playoff run – not loved.
Mets fans love home grown stars who play well, whether they are shortstops, third basemen, pitchers who make the Hall of Fame, pitchers who don’t make the Hall of Fame partially because of cocaine, right fielders who leave us for another woman (Los Angeles) and pitchers who try to save a season on three days rest. We love them all.
Mets fans get mad at folks who come to town to play left field and go from 52 home runs in 1977 to 13 home runs in 1982. They get mad at left fielders who go from 36 to 6.
They get mad at beloved managers who kill of a dynasty that never-was in 1991 and they get mad at managers who kill off a dynasty that never was in 2007 and 2008.
You come over from the Cardinals and teach us how to win, we love you. You come over from Pittsburgh and stink up the joint we boo.
You drop a pop-up against the New York Yankees in the middle of all this recent angst, yeah you’re gonna get booed. You make a leaping catch over the left field wall you are loved.
Martino:
Now, a lot of this involves performance, too. Angel Pagan, for example, is no longer called “dumb” in part because he is playing well. Perez is hated—why? Because he lost his fastball? Because he took the money that the Mets were waving in his face? Because he exercised a collectively-bargained right to refuse a minor league assignment?
Exactly. Pagan is playing better. Ollie’s refusal to go down is seen as hurting the team. One member of my staff worked all Labor Day weekend on an unexpected project and we respect him for it. Our other coworker who never seems to be around? Not respected. It’s a team.
Definitely read Martino’s piece.
People seem to like Santana and Reyes. They don’t seem too crazy about Jason Bay.
Oliver disliked because his last name is Perez? Please.
I welcome intelligent comments and even guest posts.
Back in an hour with part 3.
How am I racist for disliking Luis Castillo? He was brought on to help the Mets make the playoffs in 2007, and he was part of the collapse. Then foolishly Omar extends him. If you remember Willie Randolph was angry that Castillo come into Spring Training in 2008 very out of shape. He then would get hurt, and his only contribution in 2008 was asking the Mets not to play him to avoid messing up their winning streak.
We all know the 2009 season was a disaster, but Castillo put up some decent offensive stats while showing a greatly reduced range at 2B. His season highlight was dropping the fly ball (blowing K-Rod’s first save as a Met) thereby causing the Mets to lose the game. As many Mets fans remember, Mark Texeira hustled around the bases, depsite this being a routine play, and he scored the winning run on an error, thereby showing the severe contrast between a team that would win the World Series and a team that collapsed the 2 previous seasons.
This year, Castillo’s offense isn’t on par with his 2009 offense, and his defense and range has been just as bad. While the Mets have been unable to trade him due to both his contract (not his fault) and his diminished play (partly age, partly his fault), he had the audacity to say he should play everyday, and if he’s not going to, he should play elsewhere next season.
Meanwhile Eckstein has been known for being a grinder and hustler, in part, because Tony La Russa loved him, and he was a World Series MVP in 2006. I’m not saying Eckstein’s praise is deserved, but I fail to see how anything about Eckstein compares to Castillo . . . except how they both have limited range at 2B and have just as limited offensive skills. One makes much less, plays for a winner in SD, and keeps quiet about playing time. The other wants out despite the fact that no one wants him.
All this points to shoddy sensationalist journalism by Martino.
Here is my take on Oliver Perez.
During Game 7 of the NLCS, you could not find a Mets fan that wasn’t absolutely in love with Oliver Perez. He then backed it up with a great 2007 season. In 2008, he was not as good, but we all saw the potential there. Everyone knew that his contract that offseason was a mistake, but man, he had all the right tools and he did it before in NY.
Then in 2009, he was a disaster like the rest of the team. For the second straight year, he was not good. Fans could no longer blame Rick Peterson like they did the year before (which was laughable anyway because it was Rick Peterson that finally straightened him out). He was hurt, so maybe that was the reason he wasn’t any good. Problem was his injuries were in part related to him coming into Spring Training out of shape after getting a huge deal from the Mets, just like Luis Castillo the year before [aside to Martino: why not take this into account in your article? Maybe because it’s easier to classify fans racist to get more views and comments and make a name for yourself].
Then in 2010, after he was supposedly healed and to his credit, he went to a school to make sure he was in great shape for the season, he came back to the Mets without his fastball. The Mets asked him to go down and straighten himself out like Mets in the past had like Bobby Jones and Steve Traschel. He refused. He was so bad that Jerry Manuel, mismanager galore of pitchers, had to remove him from the rotation. Then there was a loophole to put him on the DL because there were knee problems. First day he was eligible to come back, he forced his way back on the team, yet again without his fastball. Clearly, he has diminished capacity as a pitcher, which is a shame, but he has also done nothing to help himself out, or the Mets.
Oliver Perez lost Mets fans when he came to Spring Training in 2009 out of shape and got himself hurt, which may have contributed to him being the worst pitcher in 2009 and him losing his fastball. As Tom Seaver points out time and again, a pitcher needs his legs. Oliver Perez ruined his in 2009, and he was not willing to do what was necessary to help the team in 2010, which was to go to the minors to figure it out. Mets fans assume he got fat off the contract (pun intended) and lost his desire.
He’s been embarassed this year on an embarassing team. He put his pride in front of the team and their ability to compete. He said he needed to pitch everyday to figure it out, yet he refused an assignment to the minors where he could do that. Then he claimed the Mets treated him unfairly. While he may have a point, his behavior begat the Mets treatment of him.
Mets fans don’t like Oliver Perez because he took his ability for granted and then he lost it because of his desire to improve after a huge contract. It’s funny to think after 2007 that Mets fans would be irked with Perez (and John Maine for that matter) in just a few short years, but it happened.
Why Martino didn’t compare the rise and fall of John Maine and Oliver Perez, I’ll never know. That’s an interesting article that needed to be written, but John Maine is white, so he couldn’t use that in his racism quib.
With regard to the Oliver Perez and John Maine Saga, my point was they have had the same rise and fall.
John Maine had the benefit of being acquired for a disliked player in Kris Benson. Maine put together a long scoreless innings streak and had a good postseason highlighted by his win in Game 6 of the 2006 NLCs. Maine built on that season with a strong 2007 season where he won 15 games. In 2008, he regressed a bit on what was assumed to be the result of an out-pitch evidenced by many batters fouling off many pitches with 2 strikes against him. In 2009, as with many of the pitchers handled by Warthen/Manuel, Maine regressed as was injured. In 2010, he attempted a come-back, ignored calls to go on the DL or the minors, and finally was forced on the DL after the results of an MRI came back. Fans booed Maine viciously in 2010 for his lackluster outings.
In 2006, Perez was acquired for a wildly popular player in Xavier Nady (Hispanic player born in the US) due to a cab accident Duaner Sanchez (a wildly popular Hispanic middle reliever at the time) was involved in. Due to a rash of injuries, Oliver Perez was forced to pitch in the NLCS. He pitched unevenly and got the win in a pivotal Game 4 followed by a tremendous performance in Game 7 (although bailed out by Endy Chavez, another beloved Hispanic Mets player). He worked with Rick Peterson and had a 15 win season in 2007. He regressed in 2008, but had a solid enough year to get a big 3 year deal. He came to Spring Training in 2009 out of shape and after poor performances, he would injure his knee. Statistically, he was the worst SP in baseball. He came back in 2010, despite reportedly training hard, without any of his out pitches, namely his fastball. He refused to go to the minors or the DL until the Mets did an MRI of his knee showing damage. He came back and still did not have his fastball. The Mets fans booed him mercilessly in 2010.
Therefore Maine and Perez had similar rises and falls with Mets fans. Looking at their history, it should be pointed out that it all had to do with their performance and not their ethnicity.
Also, please note how Mets fans hold Endy Chavez and Xavier Nady in high regard and once held Duaner Sanchez in high regard before he rear-ended the Mets season in 2006 and returned without his fastball or changeup. Again, Mets fans turned on him in part due to his stupid actions and because of the dimunition in his ability.
As for calling Angel Pagan bone-headead last year, Martino shouldn’t point his fingers at Mets fans, he should have called out Keith Hernandez, Ron Darling, and Gary Cohen.
Mets fans saw Angel Pagan last season as a player with all the ability in the world and none of the baseball IQ necessary to make it in the major leagues. Countless times he took the wrong route to balls or made a base running mistake. However, he had ability and a work ethic, and the Mets stuck with him. Also, it should be noted, that I never heard Pagan booed for his play. I believe Mets fans always appreciated his hustle, but that’s not good enough to make the Martino story.
This year either he put some serious work in during the offseason, or something clicked. Needless to say, he’s a different player next year, and Mets fans have showed their appreciation of him. The ironic thing is that Angel Pagan may be nothing more than a 4th OF (like Melky Cabrera was with the Yankees), but Mets fans treat him like he should be an All Star.
Here Martino acknowledged his improvement and the fans reaction to it, but then again, he felt it necessary to bring it up as support for his racism argument. Shoddy logic for his shoddy reporting.
The trickiest topic is Carlos Beltran. For some reason or other Mets fans have never warmed up to him. I believe most of it has to do with his 2005 season where he laid down some puzzling bunts, had a tendency to roll over change-ups to ground out to the second baseman while batting left-handed, and surplacing a popular player in Mike Cameron in CF. Of course, Beltran felt he was star and should play CF. Cameron begrudingly went to RF (we all knew it too) and as a result there was a violent collision between the two that day.
From there despite the injuries Beltran raced back to play the rest of the season for a team that was somehow competing for the Wild Card (no matter how remote the chances were). The next year, he was the Mets best player on the best team in baseball. He then struck out looking on the Adam Wainwright curveball in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded in Game Seven of the NLCS. His explanation was that he could do nothing with the pitch. Even if true, he could have fouled it off or something. However, that year he was a Gold Glove CF and tied the Mets records for most HRs while having a great 2006 postseason.
He was a part of the 2007 and 2008 collapses. However, he was also the player that tied the game at the last game at Shea. In 2009, like most of the team, he was hurt. Rather than get the surgery, he fought back to be with the team despite them not having a chance to do anything.
This year, he had the surgery he should have had last year late, and I’m sure everyone agrees it was because of how the Mets have mismanaged the health of their players (like Ryan Church). Then when he came back he wasn’t Beltran. We expected the Mets to take off when he came back, but they deflated. Mets fans blamed him because it was too convenient a comparison. They are mad at him for not moving to RF despite no one even asking him to do it.
Overall, I truly believe Carlos Beltran has been a victim of circumstance during his tenure with the Mets. As with Mike Piazza and Bobby Bonilla will tell you, as the best player on the team, you are cheered for more than you deserve when things are great and treated worse when things aren’t going well.
However, I highly doubt racism because he didn’t get off to a great start with fans in 2005, he struck out looking in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS, and he had a really late surgery in 2010 and was not himself when he returned. I think Mets fans are more frustrated with Beltran than anything else. He’s been a part of too many painful memories with the Mets, and at times, he’s been front and center of them.
That’s not racism Martino, that’s just a sad reality for Mr. Beltran.
Ok, I usually just respond to Metspolice with a quick quip via Twitter, but this one deserves a full post. I just read Martino’s piece and there is so much to respond to that I don’t know where to begin.
Lets start with background on me so you know where I come from: I’m a hispanic 30-something who played college baseball and still coaches inner city kids in hopes that one day they can better their own lives and have the ability to get out. I’m also probably one of the most anti-American people you have met. Not because I hate this country, I just think there are alot of things that we could do better. That we USED TO do better, but now are just lazy. I’m also against the whole affirmative action, political correctness. I want to be seen wholely on my merits, not on the color of my skin or gender or to fill a quota. If I’m not good enough, then I’m not good enough, time to work harder.
That said, I will address the simpler of the issues I think first…missing the visit to the hospital. The 3 of them need to be there. End of story. I don’t care that it was called optional. If you are part of a team and 22 guys are going, plus the staff, you are expected to be there. If I hold an optional practice and 13 of 15 guys show, you’re damn sure I will look at those guys differently. It will show me that they don’t care about the “team”. People are giving Beltran a pass, but you know what, he can move a meeting for his OWN foundation. I’m pretty sure if the CEO of a company is scheduling a meeting, then a conflict comes up, he can move HIS meeting. As extra icing on the cake, you are visiting soldiers who fight for this country so that you can live your nice little lives making millions playing a kid’s game. They put their lives on the line and lose limbs while you worry about a strained oblique because it could affect your future worth. The least you can do is take a few hours from your day to thank them.
Now, to the racial undertones raised in the article… (Reminder: I myself am latino). I don’t think we hate, yes HATE, Castillo, Perez and to some extent Beltran. It is not because of the last name on his back. Its because they are the poster children for 4 consecutive years of disappointment and underachievement. They are the poster children for being over-paid and under producing. Is it their fault Minaya was dumb enough to over pay them? No. Again, do I HATE Minaya because he’s latino? No. I hate him because he over pays over-the-hill talent based on previous reputation. I hate him because he is supposed to represent MY franchise and he is inept at doing that, often coming across like a bumbling idiot. Do I get upset about Reyes and his lack of hustle and Pagan for his dumb base running? You bet I do. The same way I hated Church for missing 3B. Do I think Wright is covered in teflon? You bet I do, but its not because he’s white…its because the Mets made him the face of their franchise and he’s their ticket to sell tickets. He’s marketable to the baseball fans who want home-grown guys. He’s marketable to the baseball fans who want nice stats. He’s marketable to the young girls because he’s a good looking all-american boy. He’s even marketable to kids and moms because he’s a goody-goody. But as the face-of-the-franchise that is often overrated, then I too have deemed him overrated. I know thats sacrilege in on this or any other Mets blog. However, in my opinion, he is too soft for NYC. He is not “clutch”. He has shown very weak leadership abilities, always deferring to someone else (Delgado, Francouer, etc).
Therefore, white, black, latino, asian, or purple from Mars, they all deserve the boos they receieve. They have been nothing but a disappointment for 4 years now. Ever since the Endy catch, there has been nothing but heart ache. From an epic collapse, to a 2nd choke, to unreal injuries, to no excuses, this is what we have. So, I posed this to someone last week…at what point do we say the Mets are underachieving to just saying maybe we’re not that good and its time to start completely over? I think that time is now…Ricco, go get me some purple Martians who will go out and play hard for 162 games.
Mostly. It’s propagated by the media, and it’s probably no different than your average fan that walks into the deli and is annoyed that the Hindu guy took his order instead of the blonde chick.
Our society is racist do why should Mets fans be any different?
but all we want is to win.
Straw, Doc,Mollie, Mex, Endy we don’t care we just want to win the series before the politicians kill us all.
Beltran’s deal is this: For every great catch he makes or game-ending home run he hits, there’s another instance when he doesn’t slide when he should or makes a useless throw to home instead of hitting the cutoff man to hold the tying run at first base. Sometimes he’s too passive, other times he’s stupidly aggressive. He just does what he wants regardless of the situation, then when questioned on the bad decisions, he’ll blow it off and say, “No, that was a good play.”
Beltran, more than anyone else, is the embodiment of this frustrating Mets era: a huge talent with great numbers who approaches too many aspects of the game the game with complete indifference. We can all admire him trying to play through the injuries, but his guts aren’t the problem; his head is, as it can far too often be found up his you-know-what. And that’s the entire problem with this entire incarnation of the team. For every great thing they do to win a game, they make some equally boneheaded mistake to lose one.
That’s one more reason I want to see Backman behind the controls. It greatly increases the chances of us seeing 9 guys playing sound, smart baseball every night.
When I look back decades from now, my biggest memories of these three players:
Beltran–caught looking GM 7
Castillo–dropped pop up vs the Yanks
Ollie–the guy who held up the Mets by refusing to go down to the minors
Sorry, that is just the way it is. I wish it could be thinks like Mookie’s roller through Buckner’s legs; Orosco tossing his glove up in the air after closing out GM 7; Stawberry’s GM 7 HR in the World Series; Keith Hernaandez doubling home a run in the 9th, and then scoring the tying run later that inning in GM 6 of the NLCS
these comments make for great reading. I ‘ll not go down this road — my commentary can only suffer in comparison to the great thoughts above
Suffice to say that I see all ‘walks of life’ wearing Mets’ Royal blues hats. So in my flawed logic, if only guys in white sheets wore met’s hats I’d say Mr. Martino might have a point. As it is, I believe Martino’s article is crap.
A big issue the Met’s face is that they share the town with the machine that is the Yanks–who no one in town, the press or the team sycophants (fans) can find something wrong with what they do….. so alll the heavy ordinance is carefully aimed at Shea errrrr—–Citifield.
In short, the things that make NY the great town it is, are also the things that sometimes mmake it a pain in the keister.
I think that there is an unconscious sentiment in the majority population of this country to always root for the people who look like them and resemble them. This is not even necessarily a bad thing, just something that is natural. When I was a child my father painted the Santa Claus figure that stood outside my front door around Christmas black. That did cause a few uncomfortable moments, like when one of my younger brother’s playmates couldn’t understand why the Santa at his house was white, while the one at my house was black.
I think that it is indisputable that there are some players who are hated for whatever reason, and I do think that there is some racial undertone to that. If you hate Beltran for his occasional mental lapses, then I would have to assume that you hate David Wright for his inability to consistently throw the ball to first, or his tendency to over swing and strike out in key ABs.
Whenever someone discusses breaking up “the core” it always seems to be Jose Reyes who the fans (usually white) want to deal, rarely David Wright. It is just something that I’ve noticed both at the stadium (I attend about 15-20 games a year every year since I graduated from college (2003).
Look, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that an entire segment of the population, in this case Met’s Fans, are racist or prejudiced. I think that we all have subconscious prejudices and assumptions that we act on and that it is natural to root for people who you feel represent you.