Some strong comments have been posted this week. A sampling:
aaguero9:
Ok, I usually just respond to Metspolice with a quick quip via Twitter, but this one deserves a full post. I just read Martino’s piece and there is so much to respond to that I don’t know where to begin.
Lets start with background on me so you know where I come from: I’m a hispanic 30-something who played college baseball and still coaches inner city kids in hopes that one day they can better their own lives and have the ability to get out. I’m also probably one of the most anti-American people you have met. Not because I hate this country, I just think there are alot of things that we could do better. That we USED TO do better, but now are just lazy. I’m also against the whole affirmative action, political correctness. I want to be seen wholely on my merits, not on the color of my skin or gender or to fill a quota. If I’m not good enough, then I’m not good enough, time to work harder.
That said, I will address the simpler of the issues I think first…missing the visit to the hospital. The 3 of them need to be there. End of story. I don’t care that it was called optional. If you are part of a team and 22 guys are going, plus the staff, you are expected to be there. If I hold an optional practice and 13 of 15 guys show, you’re damn sure I will look at those guys differently. It will show me that they don’t care about the “team”. People are giving Beltran a pass, but you know what, he can move a meeting for his OWN foundation. I’m pretty sure if the CEO of a company is scheduling a meeting, then a conflict comes up, he can move HIS meeting. As extra icing on the cake, you are visiting soldiers who fight for this country so that you can live your nice little lives making millions playing a kid’s game. They put their lives on the line and lose limbs while you worry about a strained oblique because it could affect your future worth. The least you can do is take a few hours from your day to thank them.
Now, to the racial undertones raised in the article… (Reminder: I myself am latino). I don’t think we hate, yes HATE, Castillo, Perez and to some extent Beltran. It is not because of the last name on his back. Its because they are the poster children for 4 consecutive years of disappointment and underachievement. They are the poster children for being over-paid and under producing. Is it their fault Minaya was dumb enough to over pay them? No. Again, do I HATE Minaya because he’s latino? No. I hate him because he over pays over-the-hill talent based on previous reputation. I hate him because he is supposed to represent MY franchise and he is inept at doing that, often coming across like a bumbling idiot. Do I get upset about Reyes and his lack of hustle and Pagan for his dumb base running? You bet I do. The same way I hated Church for missing 3B. Do I think Wright is covered in teflon? You bet I do, but its not because he’s white…its because the Mets made him the face of their franchise and he’s their ticket to sell tickets. He’s marketable to the baseball fans who want home-grown guys. He’s marketable to the baseball fans who want nice stats. He’s marketable to the young girls because he’s a good looking all-american boy. He’s even marketable to kids and moms because he’s a goody-goody. But as the face-of-the-franchise that is often overrated, then I too have deemed him overrated. I know thats sacrilege on this or any other Mets blog. However, in my opinion, he is too soft for NYC. He is not “clutch”. He has shown very weak leadership abilities, always deferring to someone else (Delgado, Francouer, etc).
Therefore, white, black, latino, asian, or purple from Mars, they all deserve the boos they receieve. They have been nothing but a disappointment for 4 years now. Ever since the Endy catch, there has been nothing but heart ache. From an epic collapse, to a 2nd choke, to unreal injuries, to no excuses, this is what we have. So, I posed this to someone last week…at what point do we say the Mets are underachieving to just saying maybe we’re not that good and its time to start completely over? I think that time is now…Ricco, go get me some purple Martians who will go out and play hard for 162 games.
John:
The trickiest topic is Carlos Beltran. For some reason or other Mets fans have never warmed up to him. I believe most of it has to do with his 2005 season where he laid down some puzzling bunts, had a tendency to roll over change-ups to ground out to the second baseman while batting left-handed, and surplacing a popular player in Mike Cameron in CF. Of course, Beltran felt he was star and should play CF. Cameron begrudingly went to RF (we all knew it too) and as a result there was a violent collision between the two that day.
From there despite the injuries Beltran raced back to play the rest of the season for a team that was somehow competing for the Wild Card (no matter how remote the chances were). The next year, he was the Mets best player on the best team in baseball. He then struck out looking on the Adam Wainwright curveball in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded in Game Seven of the NLCS. His explanation was that he could do nothing with the pitch. Even if true, he could have fouled it off or something. However, that year he was a Gold Glove CF and tied the Mets records for most HRs while having a great 2006 postseason.
He was a part of the 2007 and 2008 collapses. However, he was also the player that tied the game at the last game at Shea. In 2009, like most of the team, he was hurt. Rather than get the surgery, he fought back to be with the team despite them not having a chance to do anything.
This year, he had the surgery he should have had last year late, and I’m sure everyone agrees it was because of how the Mets have mismanaged the health of their players (like Ryan Church). Then when he came back he wasn’t Beltran. We expected the Mets to take off when he came back, but they deflated. Mets fans blamed him because it was too convenient a comparison. They are mad at him for not moving to RF despite no one even asking him to do it.
Overall, I truly believe Carlos Beltran has been a victim of circumstance during his tenure with the Mets. As with Mike Piazza and Bobby Bonilla will tell you, as the best player on the team, you are cheered for more than you deserve when things are great and treated worse when things aren’t going well.
However, I highly doubt racism because he didn’t get off to a great start with fans in 2005, he struck out looking in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS, and he had a really late surgery in 2010 and was not himself when he returned. I think Mets fans are more frustrated with Beltran than anything else. He’s been a part of too many painful memories with the Mets, and at times, he’s been front and center of them.
That’s not racism Martino, that’s just a sad reality for Mr. Beltran.
With regard to the Oliver Perez and John Maine Saga, my point was they have had the same rise and fall.
John Maine had the benefit of being acquired for a disliked player in Kris Benson. Maine put together a long scoreless innings streak and had a good postseason highlighted by his win in Game 6 of the 2006 NLCs. Maine built on that season with a strong 2007 season where he won 15 games. In 2008, he regressed a bit on what was assumed to be the result of an out-pitch evidenced by many batters fouling off many pitches with 2 strikes against him. In 2009, as with many of the pitchers handled by Warthen/Manuel, Maine regressed as was injured. In 2010, he attempted a come-back, ignored calls to go on the DL or the minors, and finally was forced on the DL after the results of an MRI came back. Fans booed Maine viciously in 2010 for his lackluster outings.
In 2006, Perez was acquired for a wildly popular player in Xavier Nady (Hispanic player born in the US) due to a cab accident Duaner Sanchez (a wildly popular Hispanic middle reliever at the time) was involved in. Due to a rash of injuries, Oliver Perez was forced to pitch in the NLCS. He pitched unevenly and got the win in a pivotal Game 4 followed by a tremendous performance in Game 7 (although bailed out by Endy Chavez, another beloved Hispanic Mets player). He worked with Rick Peterson and had a 15 win season in 2007. He regressed in 2008, but had a solid enough year to get a big 3 year deal. He came to Spring Training in 2009 out of shape and after poor performances, he would injure his knee. Statistically, he was the worst SP in baseball. He came back in 2010, despite reportedly training hard, without any of his out pitches, namely his fastball. He refused to go to the minors or the DL until the Mets did an MRI of his knee showing damage. He came back and still did not have his fastball. The Mets fans booed him mercilessly in 2010.
Therefore Maine and Perez had similar rises and falls with Mets fans. Looking at their history, it should be pointed out that it all had to do with their performance and not their ethnicity.
Also, please note how Mets fans hold Endy Chavez and Xavier Nady in high regard and once held Duaner Sanchez in high regard before he rear-ended the Mets season in 2006 and returned without his fastball or changeup. Again, Mets fans turned on him in part due to his stupid actions and because of the dimunition in his ability.
Ceetar:
There is a difference praising bad players and actually liking them too. It’s actually alright if you like Jeff Francoeur, and it’s certainly okay to root for him to do good and exceed what he’s done in his career. Every single AB a player has a chance to have a career-changing moment and actually get better. Even if you like Jeff, you know the offense hasn’t gotten it done this year. As a fan, outside of any direction influence, it’s certainly okay to want the upgrade in 2011 to be a “good” Jeff Francoeur rather than a free agent or Angel Pagan or whatever. Stranger things have happened. Most are hoping for “A really good RFer next year, and I hope that guy is Jeff Francoeur, versus just wanting Frenchy out there”
It’s alright not to like Jose Reyes, or any other good player. For any reason. Whether it’s attitude, because you’re ex-wife left you for a guy named Jose, charity work or visits to Walter Reed. To me that off-field stuff doesn’t matter. I don’t like David Wright or any of the other guys better for going, and I don’t like those three any less for not.
None of our feelings about particular players really matters as far as the games go. It does bother me when fans start to seem to prefer Luis Castillo to ground out than for him to get a hit. When fans boo Oliver Perez entering a game louder than they cheer Niese striking out guys. You can dislike those three for not going to Walter Reed, but it wasn’t wrong of them not to go, no matter what you feel. It’s a personal choice and no one is obligated to do anything. That’s actually kinda the point of the whole thing and part of what said soldiers are being honored for.
James:
I think you’re basically agreeing with what I’m saying. People can “like” or “dislike” whomever they choose. Who am I (or anyone?) to say otherwise.
But if your ultimate desire as a Met fan is to see the team win, then not liking the good players who can contribute to that end seems contradictory.
If you (the hypothetical “you”) want to root for fun guys who play through sprained thumbs and give good quotes to the media, that’s fine with me. But if you’re happy about (for example) Alex Cora and Jeff Francoeur being on the team and want to dump Jose Reyes, I don’t see how you have the right to complain about W-L record.
As for the Walter Reed thing, it’s an overblown joke of a story. The NY Mets media has nothing to write about so they’ve created this monster. Ollie’s “excuse” is the weakest, for sure. The other two are totally justified. But I have no ill-will towards any of them for this. By including the tisk-tisk quotes from Wright and Dickey (most of the articles did that), it’s quite obvious the writers are trying to contrast players the fans like with players fans don’t like. Most fans are idiots, unfortunately, and lap up this stuff from the NY media.
To say “Beltran could have rescheduled his meeting” is ridiculous when one does not know the circumstances of this meeting. Has it been planned months in advance? Did it involve dozens of people and was not easily moved? Maybe the government or department of education was involved, which is why he held it in DC? Baseless speculation is a waste of time, and being “disappointed” in him without knowing the facts is pretty weak.
Matt:
When I look back decades from now, my biggest memories of these three players:
Beltran–caught looking GM 7
Castillo–dropped pop up vs the Yanks
Ollie–the guy who held up the Mets by refusing to go down to the minors
Sorry, that is just the way it is. I wish it could be thinks like Mookie’s roller through Buckner’s legs; Orosco tossing his glove up in the air after closing out GM 7; Stawberry’s GM 7 HR in the World Series; Keith Hernaandez doubling home a run in the 9th, and then scoring the tying run later that inning in GM 6 of the NLCS
Sparks:
Beltran’s deal is this: For every great catch he makes or game-ending home run he hits, there’s another instance when he doesn’t slide when he should or makes a useless throw to home instead of hitting the cutoff man to hold the tying run at first base. Sometimes he’s too passive, other times he’s stupidly aggressive. He just does what he wants regardless of the situation, then when questioned on the bad decisions, he’ll blow it off and say, “No, that was a good play.”
Beltran, more than anyone else, is the embodiment of this frustrating Mets era: a huge talent with great numbers who approaches too many aspects of the game the game with complete indifference. We can all admire him trying to play through the injuries, but his guts aren’t the problem; his head is, as it can far too often be found up his you-know-what. And that’s the entire problem with this entire incarnation of the team. For every great thing they do to win a game, they make some equally boneheaded mistake to lose one.
That’s one more reason I want to see Backman behind the controls. It greatly increases the chances of us seeing 9 guys playing sound, smart baseball every night.
Bien dicho, Sr. Aguero! Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con sus comentarios!