LI Phil posted this in comments:
at wednesday’s mets game, paul and i discussed the possible retirement of kid’s 8, and i have to say, his arguments have made me change my stance slightly — i still feel carter’s being sick is no reason to retire his # (either retire it or don’t, but don’t do it because now he may kick off before he gets to see it retired) and i also feel that IF you retire #8, you have to retire #17 & 31 (and possibly #45 in a tug-piazza-franco three-way), you also better strongly consider #16 & #18 as well…no way 8 gets in ahead of the others
but in discussing it with paul, he reminded me (and i never should have forgotten) how much of a “me first” player kid apparently was…and how egotistical he was — now, did that affect his play on the field? maybe not, but if you’re gonna bring up character issues with straw and doc (and possibly keith and mike), then you better consider kid’s attitude towards his teammates and in the clubhouse — he may have thought he was a choir boy (and probably seemed like it in that clubhouse), but he had as many failings as a human as did everyone else
and one more thing — i recently attended an event hosted by frank boulton (LI Ducks owner) which featured Bob Wolff (there to promote and sign his new book), Ron Darling and Bud Harrelson…this was before carter got sick (or at least before the news was made public)…
and somehow the panel had carter’s name brought up, and BOTH darling AND buddy took shots at kid — now, darling played with him and buddy was a coach, so their perspective was quite valuable — and they were especially critical of his behavior when he wanted the mets managerial job; i wished i’d recorded the evening’s dialog, but suffice it to say that, in a very public forum, darling and buddy weren’t too keen on carter — had he been a fantastic teammate and overall good guy, i’m SURE they never would have said this stuff — and while buddy can be a bit sardonic, i found darling to be nothing short of a total gentleman — and he didn’t seem like he had an ax to grind either
i think you retire a number based SOLELY on the player’s ENTIRE value to the organization
and if that is the criterion (or the primary one) then there are about 5 numbers that need to go in before *8*
No numbers are getting retired any time soon
>if that is the criterion (or the primary one) then there are about 5 numbers that need to go in before *8*
Like I said at the time, what’s the harm in doing just that?
personally, i don’t see any problem (harm) in doing that — but this rush to retire *8* (and it seems like ONLY 8, at least according to fan sentiment) is my problem
you want 8 on the wall? fine
8 goes up after 17, 31, 16, 18 and maybe even 45 (in conjunction with 31 as a tugger-johnny franco-piazza hat tip)
and not that i think he’s any more deserving than carter, but no love for the mook? i know “1” has been worn since wilson left, but he was as loved as any met, and he was with them from the dark days of the early 80s thru the glory years…almost 10 seasons as a met…
again, not saying 1 should be retired, but i find it odd he’s not even in the discussion at all…
Excellent point on Wilson.
“almost 10 seasons as a met” is the reason.
cleon jones played longer (if you count a hand full of games between 1962-1965.) he played on two mets world series teams and played in the even “darker days” of the mets. if fans want #45 retired,hell lets talk about #21 as well.